Funny, I live with a Roman Catholic Spouse who is utterly irreligious (and in some ways anti-religious) and though I love her to bits, I secretly hanker for a marriage to a pious Muslim sister (preferably of Pakistani origin) who hold my hand when Ramadan fasting started to make me giddy, laugh at my Urdu spoken with an English accent and rip my head off if I missed salah. Being the only praying person in a household is bloody hard work!

Ya Binnit,

I don't think you've been harsh on her. Yours are valid and very important arguments. I probably would've made the same.

But hers is a difficult choice, one that I only wish upon my enemies. As you pointed out, regardless of her choice, there will always be a void in her life - either she gives up on a large part of her culture or on having a true partnership, true love.

Of course, one thing that you didn't touch upon is the question of, should she go for her-people-guy, where they would live & how that future would (possibly) curtail her career, personal liberties, etc. not to speak of the lives of her future children. Where does she want to raise them, what values teach them, what opportunities give them?

Now, as for the question of "respectability" ... as you know, in my point of view, people who think that you (& your friend) are not "respectable" because you do not conform to their rather limited worldview do not deserve overly much respect themselves. Sadly, their disapproving looks still hurt & it is only human to want to be accepted. It's easy to dismiss the narrow-minded with a "Screw them!" but in reality, one cannot easily ignore one's family, or members of a shared (& please forgive the technical term) ethno-religious group.

Is there a solution? Frankly, I don't know. I like to think there is - I mean, it's a big world, so surely there must be places where "weirdos" like you & your friend can live and be gladly accepted & even embraced, no? New York City comes to mind ... (But then, NYC always comes to mind.)

In the end, your friend will be best served with following her instincts. And no, I don't believe that she is really torn between the two men. I think she has a clear preference, but is unwilling to admit it to herself as it means she has to accept that she will actively deny herself something that matters a lot to her.

I don't envy her.

--MSK*

It sounds like a difficult situation and you've been remarkably sensitive about it, I think. Your friend sounds quite torn about not wanting to give up either part of herself, but with these two men it sounds like she might not have a choice (no hot Brit-Muslim men of a similar background/persuasion in the offing? It sounds like she *wants* B to fill that role but this line suggests he might not: "with B I would feel, no matter how much he loved me, that there is a big part of me that is anathema to him and I would have to keep that part hidden, disguised, diluted...")

I think your friend should just start dating the Brit and see how it goes. Because choices, however difficult, are much more difficult in the abstract when they are about wrestling with one's own dilemmas and demons; the actual relationship will have a dynamic of its own that might help her decide whether this is what she can be happy with or not.

I hear you Julaybib, I am amazed sometimes at how easily prayer comes to me when I am at home, it's just automatic when all are doing it.

MSK, of course there is always a place for her AWAY from home, but that is the point, it will only be in exile.

SP, will be meeting her later in the week with Brit in tow, will you posted...

Very interesting. I am a "regular American" white guy married to an Arab lady. I really feel sorry for Arab women raised in the West because it really seems like they are pulled in two different directions.

Often it seems like they have no choice, at least none that will be able to make both them and their family happy at the same time. It is a double standard that Arab men in the West seem not to be afflicted by.

They can live however they want, and when it is time to marry they can look "back home" for the nice virginal hijab wearing girl who they can bring back here and not have to be worried because she wont question what he has been up to for the last 10 years.

I have known many Arab women, both here in the West, and even back in the Middle East, who are stuck in the very same situation. As an American guy married to an Arab, who is pretty open himself, I seem to have been someone they could talk to. When I had my blog I used to get e-mailed all of the time by Arab women wanting to know how to get their families to accept a non Arab they want to marry.

For your friend, what are the chances of a "sham" conversion for the Brit? I know the more pious out there wont like this idea, but God leads people to Him in many ways, so who are they to judge (although that never seems to stop them)?

Seems like the choices here are the guy she really likes and the guy who will make the family happy.

Would the family be happy with a convert to Islam? Some families would not mind. My wife's family didnt care that I was white, only that I was Muslim. I know this isnt always the case.

But if her family can look aside from the race/ethnic issue, then a conversion for the Brit might be the way to go. They wouldnt be the first to do such a thing to get married and keep the family happy, and they wont be the last.

If she marries a guy she is not completely happy with then she will never be happy, not to mention it is hardly fair for the guy.

Who knows, maybe the guy will actually come to like Islam and can share Ramadan, Eid and the other things with the lady? There is only one way to find out.

It is really sad that in many cases the women have to choose between being happy and being exiled from the family.

From your description of her I dont think she, herself, would ever be completely happy if she married without the acceptance of her family. She also seems to have a religious streak in her, however buried, which might cause all sorts of issues in the future if she married a guy who isnt Muslim.

A sham conversion for the Brit, with the hope that he comes to respect and like the deen, is the best option. That, and the hope that it is enough for the family that the guy becomes a Muslim.

I am with MSK, I dont envy her.

Oo how exciting, a will she or won't she.

I know many many couples where the man has 'converted' for the sake of convenience and it is remarkable that sometimes I take it for granted that the man would 'if he really loves her', but would I convert if the same applied to my potential partner? Definitely not; this double standard of 'my religion is scarier than yours so go ahead and lie about your core beliefs', is one of the more sinister ones in Islam, dare I say, one verging on emotional terrorism.

Meph,

What if the man's "core beliefs" are relatively tolerant when it comes to "sham conversion"?

But yeah, the (mis?)interpretation of Qur'an & Sunnah into "Muslim men can marry non-Muslim women, but Muslim women cannot marry non-Muslim men" is one of those rather paleo-tribalistic ones ...

--MSK*

Meph,

Having been raised Protestant, in an otherwise Catholic wider family, let me tell you in no uncertain terms that Islam is hardly the only religion that does this.

I have known Catholics disowned by their families for marrying Protestants. It used to be official Catholic teaching that any Catholic who married a non-Catholic could not be married in the Church and they had to agree to raise the kids Catholic.

I have seen the same thing happen in Mormon families as well. It seems to be a staple of any family who is devoted to their faith and thinks that following any other is a sentence to hell.

How many Christian Arabs would be happy if one of their own decided to marry a Muslim? This isnt really a religious issue in this case, it is a cultural issue.

As to the interpretation of The Qur'an and Sunnah, I dont agree with it either, but maybe differently than MSK. I think if a person really is a devout Muslim they shouldnt marry a non Muslim, whether male or female. I think it would be next to impossible to marry and live with a non Muslim and keep up completely with the duties required of a devout Muslim.

I find that the children of such marriages often tend to reject religion period, neither Islam nor Christianity. For some this is okay. For others it is not, but it is a point to be thought about.

In the case being discussed here, sham conversions have been happening for hundreds, probably thousands of years. Islam is no different than any other religion that has gone before.

I have seen sham conversions to Judaism, sham conversions to Catholicism, you name it. All to please the wider family. Does it work? Most of the time it does. It depends on the two people involved.

Once the guy "converted" that is almost all there is to it. No one is suggesting that he put on a Sunnah thob, grow a beard, and head to Mecca for religious lessons. He would likely be forced not to drink in front of his wife's family and not to indulge in "Bangers and Mash"( he is a Brit) when the family is around.

In time I am sure he would find value in some of the religious themes Islam has to offer, and in turn, she could find value in some of the religious themes he might bring to the relationship, if any.

I was born Christian, but I chose to convert to Islam. I met my wife years after my conversion, so it wasnt an issue.

It would seem, to me, that the lady in question has some guilt about what she is doing, whether rightly or wrongly. My worry would be that in the future, if she decides to marry this guy, that she might decide that her religion's importance grows within her creating a major problem.

I knew of a couple where the guy did a sham conversion and the wider family was okay with it. Several years latter the lady grew closer to her own religion and no longer wanted alcohol or pork in the house, wanted to start keeping prayers, and found her hubby wasnt interested. That is a risk her.

The way she is described she sounds like a lady who deep down still really holds onto her religious feelings. If those feelings really come back later in life, marriage to a sham convert might be a huge issue.

That is something only she can answer. But if religion isnt a big deal, a stumbling block, then there is no reason for not having a "sham conversion" and letting them get on with their lives as a happy couple.

Binti.

Gdierah? Fouqatch tzouri lmghrib?

Well, this is an interesting reflexion.

I liked (contra the usual) Abu Sinan's comments although "sham" conversion seems harsh - form, initial, introductory....

In effect, if la chica wants a certain profile, the Mate has to be willing to be able to play at some level, else misery.

Having more than one marriage experience and all in a context perhaps not too dissimilar, I would add nuance to Sinan's comments. The key is approach to the Religion. There are of course people who are at once religious and not terribly... practicing. Strange perhaps logically, but voila, I believe we both understand.

A sham conversion where either (i) the mate is not terribly favourable to Islam and feels undue pressure or (ii) bintna isn't honest about her own religious expectations from the mate such that she either expects him to get to learning more than the Fatiha - or as certain people experienced (kha), the contrary, she finds if the mate takes things seriously post marriage, and gets to practicing....

Bien le monde est complexe cherie, fhmt hadi khalijiah, pity you all have such complexes, Mghribat the inverse.

Just in general: nice and poignant material. Worth listening even without a developed opinion to share.

Abu Sinan

I was by no means suggesting that Islam was the only religion that did this, only that in the potential partnership, the onus is on the man as the threat from the woman's family is so much more potent. If anything it is a gender bias, Hindu/Sikh/Muslim men who marry women of another religion are not by and large victimised as much as women who do so. What is undeniable however, is that the reprecussions of a Muslim converting from Islam are more serious than those of a Catholic converting to Islam.

I digress however, I was merely paying a little more respect to the hapless candidate who we assume will happily convert (genuinely or not). It is not even at its core a religious issue, one may on principle have an objection to humouring the bigoted.

Lounsbury,

I am glad you agreed with my comments, and your nuance was entirely correct.

I have heard "born" Muslims and converts talk with disdain about people who convert for marriage, but I disagree. Who are we, or anyone else, to say what is in someone's heart and their "niyya" or intentions for doing so?

I have seen, in one case, a "sham" conversion become the real deal and the guy is a really devout type of guy now. So who knows?

The sad part is the judgemental nature of people to make such things needed in the first place.

Meph,

As a white guy married to an Arab Muslim lady, I know what you are talking about. Even though my wife's family was fine with our marriage, the response to it from Muslims not in the family hasnt always been positive, sometimes it has been downright hostile.

Interestingly enough, response from Arab women has been almost always positive. Cultural expectations from Arab men, whether born in the Middle East or the West, has made many wish they could do the same.

To those who dont like it, they have either got the "Kuss Omak" response from me to any of their voiced negatively, or they didnt have the bottle to say anything in the first place.

Well, this is always a tough issue for those who a) have some geniune level of religious belief and attachment to their cultural background; and b) care about other people's opinions.

I suppose you could tell your friend that in the experience of an Internet acquaintance of yours, who has dated about equally inside and outside her group, the familial discourse on the subject of life partnership changes substantially over time. When you're pushing 30, your potential mates are evaluated behind their backs with "is he One of Us?" But past that point, the questions shift to "Does he have a pulse and no criminal convictions?"

(Admittedly, my family is rather assimilated, and a fair proportion of them aren't terribly observant - though the ones who are likely to be the most judgmental about intermarriage do tend to be the most observant. Plus there is quite a bit of precedent among the cousins - not to mention the sister - for pairing off "outside the Tribe."

However, I'm not sure there is any guilt that quite equals that implied by "intermarriage is likely to accomplish among the Jewish people what even the Holocaust couldn't." It's not terribly common for the non-Jewish spouse to convert - though I do have a Swedish cousin by marriage named Chistina, who is now Jewish - and children born to intermarried couples tend not to be raised Jewish. So of course the implication is that by marrying outside the group, you are contributing to the annihilation of the group.)

Sorry, distracted but am back. It would be great if I could just direct her to the comments section of this post (not entirely sure how that would go down), may just plagiarise...

To raise an even more depressing point, I am not entirely sure whether even conversion would be the panacea, I think her family (I know mine would) would still be extremely opposed to the idea, blackening family names and the like, so even the best case scenraio is rather bleak.

L's point re Maghrebine illustrates that the blame does not entirely lie at Islam's door as cultural attitudes do vary from country to country. The rather cast iron prohibition on marrying a non-Muslim man does make it harder I think for some to accept the idea even after conversion.

Am reminded of a French friend of mine who converted to marry a Muslim girl from a very conservative family. Two days before the wedding they had to postpone as they realised he was not circumcised (would have loved to be there when he was asked) so he obliged and needed a few days to recover. I hope for his sake she was worth it.

Meph, surely, if whoever it is is truly in love with the girl, it is a small price to pay?

"When you're pushing 30, your potential mates are evaluated behind their backs with "is he One of Us?" But past that point, the questions shift to "Does he have a pulse and no criminal convictions?""

EL, this totally cracked me up - and I can relate! I used to worry in my twenties that the parents weren't exactly thrilled about the live-in khawaga boyfriend, and worry that he'd Never Quite Understand things that had sentimental or cultural value, and to some extent I was right, but over the years I've realised just how much we second guess our family members and see them as much more judgemental than they really are (and how one can very well develop new sentimental associations and rituals and 'cozy comforts' in the new relationship). Plus the over-30 factor that makes family downgrade their expectations to "you'll be reproducing and not dying a spinster" has a real mellowing effect.

Bint, I wonder if your friend is really more attached to the cultural and religious commonalities because they are traits important to her in someone she can be intimate with, or whether she's thinking more of her family, or sees marriage to a Muslim as a sort of redemption. In the first instance, I can see her dilemma; in the second two, I'd remind her that she's the one who's going to spend the rest of her life (hopefully) with this person, when the rest of the family will only see him on holidays, so best to please herself before them (and if they love her they'll come around at some point); and she shouldn't do something because she thinks it's something she *ought* to do even if she doesn't genuinely feel it, because she might end up resenting the situation a few years down the road.

L.'s point is right about Maghrebines (you can get an occasional ultra-conservative reaction, but that's a minority). My sis's married to a (non-convert) frog and it hasn't been an issue even among the most conservative elements of the family (the hope that he converts is sure present for some, but it doesn't go beyond that).

I have very mixed thoughts about Bint's anecdote though.

First, the usual anti-arab husband prejudice that really makes me itch. At the same time, and don't tell anyone I told you, I held, and still do, the same anti-arab partner prejudice somehow. While I usually viscerally oppose most generalizations in that context - heck, I'm tired of explaining that I don't beat my partners or that I don't want them to be my house slaves - practical experience through my family has been that, statistically speaking Arab men have been poor boyfriend or husband material for liberal or Western Arab women. Why play against the odds, the sad truth is too many Arabs have yet to make their sexual revolution.

The other point is, I can't help not having much esteem for personal insecurity. This girl's problem is really not uncommon, and quite often sums up to an inner conflit between the perception of what "home" is supposed to be and what lifestyle she would chose if there was no external pressure of any kind. Others, men included, like her who are (or want to be) somewhere in between different cultures or different stages of social change, should stop being insecure about it, accept themselves the way they are and uphold it. I've seen a few do it; it does marvels to personal confort. And if the only way to feel confortable in relationships is to opt for a mate who's somewhere in between too, then I guess another Western/Liberal Arab(*) or Abu Sinan's options are the best bets. Small populations, but not non-existant.

(*): To add to L.'s warning about converts, many Arab women born and raised in MENA looking for such hybrid Arabs confuse identity, appearance or liberal speech with actual reality of said person, which unfortunately, sometimes present discrepancies - such animals too might either turn out to be too Liberal/Western or actually too Conservative/Arab. I've seen both happen, more in the direction of liberal belles-paroles later mismatched by conservative behavior, but the opposite too happens - including to yours truly, I had a gf who was looking for a Liberal Arab, as in both kosher for her family and respectful of her lifestyle, and then decided she wasn't confortable enough with my utter lack of traditionalism.

Aqoul now has a lonely heart's column. Great.

It is odd playing dutch uncle to a total stranger but I'm in a mood. Must be the jet lag.

I'm going to take a different tack. This is actually an easy question, at least to answer.

This is a common and age-old problem that has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with being an emigrant. It's perfectly normal for an emigrant to feel torn between the culture they grew up in and their new home. The wider the culture gap, the more severe the angst.

But for good or ill, you really can't go home again, especially when someone has grown up in a more traditional culture and moved to a more "liberal" one. As much as someone may feel out of place in their new home, trying to return to their orginal culture is orders of magnitude worse. The cultural norms they once took for granted become suffocating. Unable or unwilling to abandon all of their new attitudes, they inevitably and repeatedly clash with family and friends to whom they look for support. If Bint's friend thinks her parents are pissed off with her for living in the West, wait until she goes back home and wants to act like she's still living in the West.

Once again, this has nothing to do with Islam. Japanese companies typically rotate their Japanese staff posted to foreign offices back to Japan after four or five years. They do this because they've observed that managers abroad longer than that will "go native" and have great difficulty in re-adapting to Japanese society. Many companies even have "re-entry" training for returning managers and their families.

Then there's the second question. What does she want for her children? Does she think they will have better lives in her new culture or her old culture? Traditionally, this has been the closer for emigrants throughout history. "Leaving home for a new country is going to suck for me. I won't know the language. I won't understand the culture. I'll have to live on the margins of society. But my children will have a better life."

Assuming she believes her children will indeed have greater opportunities in her new culture, there really isn't any choice at all. Trying to force her round-pegged self into a square culture will only make her and those around her miserable. Sacrificing her children's future for a bit of ill-considered nostalgia would be both foolish and selfish in the extreme.

Since there's clearly no perfect solution to your friend's dilemma, I think she should go out with the man who seems to meet her on a plane, instinctively, emotionally, and intellectually (the British guy) while resigning herself to the fact that she will perhaps always need friends and family to nuture that side of her that wants the instinctive psychological comfort of a shared religion and culture. Respectability (horrible word) and purifying redemption aside, it does sound to me as though she wants that measure of instinctive childhood certainty along with the grand passion, an impossible square to circle unless one is very lucky, and even then it's just a flippin' lottery . . .

A few things there. I had to feel for the brother who had to get himself "fixed" before the marriage.

I wish he had consulted me first. There was a sheik who issued a fatwa sometime back that said that convert men who were not circumcised did NOT have to undergo the procedure, as it as painful and could even be dangerous. He said it would be preferable, but not a necessity.

There is also a misplaced idea amoungst some Arab women about the nature of Western men. I guess there is a stereotype out there that Western men will be very liberal and very free thinking in their regards to woman and marriage. This is not always the case, especially if the lady wants to marry new convert to Islam who might well be more strict in his observance than others.

In regards to the family, I think it depends on family history and the culture where they come from. The issue with inter-marriage, I think is more about culture than religion. Someone who is really into their religion should not mind the idea of their daughter marrying someone outside the culture, as it is the religion that matters. Those stuck on the culture, and what others think, would be more worried.

In my wife's case her family comes from the Hijaz area of Saudi Arabia, where inter-racial marriage is much more common and accepted than it is in many areas of the MENA. For her family it wasn’t an issue. Why worry about a white Muslim when you've already got Indonesian blood, along with Egyptian and Morrocan thrown in there at one point or another as well?

There is also the drive amoungst some segments of community in MENA to marry their daughters off to Americans to be able to come to the USA. It is actually so common for African American converts to go to Morroco to get wives that it has become a major issue in the African American community. See the link below for a lot of converstion on the issue.

http://umarlee.com/2007/11/07/“morocco-is-not-the-solution”-and-thoughts-of-muslim-marriage-discussion

As usual, I feel like an outlier. But not in a bad way.

Over the years, countless family friends have dropped by my father's place with successful sons in tow. It never works, and my parents know they have no influence when it comes to marriage, choice of mate, children, etc.

Years back, I had a chat with my father (who is somewhat traditional) about my then boyfriend. It went like this:

"So your boyfriend, he is Christian?"
"Yes. Catholic."
"Are you going to marry him?"
"Possibly."

(5 second pause, I raise an eyebrow)

"I would love to meet him. Also, your grandma made fishcakes for lunch because they're your favorite."

In short, my family understands that if they have a problem with my mate's religion/ethnicity, they can risk pissing me off or they can be happy for me. Rarely do people opt for the former.

"Aqoul now has a lonely heart's column. Great."

In this case, though, it seems the lady has more of an overcrowded heart.

That conversation would have run like so with my mother,

'So you have a boyfriend'?
'Yes'

*Wailing, gnashing and invocation of dead ancestors against the devil spawn who had blackened family name*

Ya Binnit,

Wailing, gnashing and invocation of dead ancestors against the devil spawn who had blackened family name

That sounds a lot like family honor is the only issue of importance & religion doesn't matter. And "invocation of dead ancestors"? Gotta love folk-Islam ...

--MSK*

Sorry, saw some comments that seem to have been eaten up earlier.

it does sound to me as though she wants that measure of instinctive childhood certainty along with the grand passion

Very well said, and probably too much to ask, sad but true.

MSK

My family's all about the honour and shame, sitting at dinner the other day in a revealing vest top a little squirt of a cousin (couldn't have been more than five years old) pointed at me and said 'you're going to HELL'

Ya Binnit,

That's precious.

But what I'm getting at is that in your description of your dear Mum's reaction God/religion wasn't mentioned. Invocation of dead ancestors (dare I say "ancestral spirits") is rather out there & not quite Sunna ... I'd've expected more of a "tu'burnii" or "You'll go to hell" or "yakhra baytik" or similar ... more muslim-y, y'know?

--MSK*

Meph, surely, if whoever it is is truly in love with the girl, it is a small price to pay?

See, this is the kind of comments that really winds me up. Surely, if you are in LOVE with me, what's the hold up? This kind of simplistic emotional naivety assumes that the decision is not only an obvious one, but that love should override all other feelings of victimisation, bullying and a downright reluctance to be sucked into even more lies and hypocrisy. I am not saying that one shouldn't convert, only that the topic be broached with more sensitivity.

Bloody hell:

There is also the drive amoungst some segments of community in MENA to marry their daughters off to Americans to be able to come to the USA. It is actually so common for African American converts to go to Morroco to get wives that it has become a major issue in the African American community. See the link below for a lot of converstion on the issue.

First, those people at that site are bloody cretins.

Second, mate, Moroccan and Tunisian chicas have been marrying anything with a handsome passport (never mind America, Fransa, Espan, etc) for decades. It's the suject of open (as in TV, public Maghrebine TV I mean, etc) comedy. Maghreb ain't the Machreq with its primative tribalism.

I remember reading a Saudi columnist who was angry when his 8-year-old came home one day and told him that women who didn't wear the niqab and gloves were going to burn in the *HELLFIRE* (it has to be in caps, because it shouldn't sound metaphysical) - as to why teachers wish this upon their students or talk in this way, God knows why.

Bint, did you ever see that 'Tasm ma Tash' episode where they touch on the Saudi education system, and one teacher, attempting to report the physics teacher who is actually teaching radicalism, finds out at the end of the episode that the Minister of Education is the physics teacher's brother? Hilarious, though not to the Wahhabi establishment. Darkest humour, indeed...

Indeed I did Dawud, big fan of Tash meself.

UPDATE: Met aforementioned young lady and Brit fellow for a a quick drink yesterday, thoroughly charming man and depsite his 'kafir' status, displayed a sensitive and nuanced understanding of the difficulties his potential partner faces...

Ya binnit,

Sounds like we have a winner, then. And yes, some white people do have "sensitive and nuanced understanding" of such issues & difficulties ...

Now, the real question is: Will the young lady choose love or family?

--MSK*

I am with MSK, more often than not Islam really doesnt play a role in this. It is a cultural thing. That is why you'll see Hindu and Sikh women going through the same thing. Look at the recent honour killing of the Yazidi girl for wanting to be with a Muslim.

Their men can marry out, but family honour dictates that the women never do so.

This is one portion of the Arab culture that I cannot stand. I was at the Saudi Embassy here in DC the other day trying to get some things done. When the guys there find out you are married to "one of theirs" they are none too happy about it and it can make getting things done very difficult.

Ah well, can't say it bothers me. What does bother me is that the goverments in the area put up a lot of barriers to it.

Bint,

Will the governmental aspect play a role in things? Most MENA countries refuse citizen rights to children of women married to foreigners. In my situation, my wife and I cannot travel to Saudi together because they do not recognise our marriage, hence I am not her "mehram" male in Saudi. Without that we cannot stay in a hotel together, being public together. She would even be required to go to an uncle for permission to leave Saudi.

If they never plan to live and travel in her home country then it is okay, if they do legalities could cause a big issue.

I'm a (nonpracticing) Christian who married an Arab man. I agreed at the outset that our kids would be raised Muslim, thinking we'd be living in the Middle East.

All I can say is that once kids come along, one's religion, culture and traditions of origin take on new meaning. It's harder than one can ever imagine.

My observation is: unless your friend is head-over-heels-can't-live-without-him in love with the Brit, I don't recommend inter-cultural or interfaith marriage. Ours has worked out, but there isn't much of his own culture my husband has maintained, losing a little more each year.

Children will never be 50/50. They will likely identify strongly with the culture where they live if the parents are mixed.

A good point well made, something to think on...

Dear AAM,

I think that, while you're right in general, how the children develop will very much depend on both parents and environment.

Hence, just as children of mixed marriages where one parent is a "non-practicing" MidEasterner/Muslim and who grow up in the West are likely to not have much of a MidEastern identity, if one of the parents is a "practicing" MidEasterner/Muslim the children are as likely to have a stronger identity.

Also, being treated as "Arab" or "Moozlim" by society can do wonders for pushing a bi-cultural teenager into a strong attachment to the non-Western identity ...

Just visit any Arabic-for-Foreigners program in an Arab city (currently, Damascus is a good place to start) & you'll meet tons of bi-culturals who've rejected their Western background & upbringing and want to reconnect with the language/culture (and often also religion) of their MidEastern/Muslim half of their family ...

--MSK*

MSK is spot on. It is the same with children in African American/White American families. More often than not they tend to identify with the African American side because of the pressures from society and the people around them.

We have two boys, I am American, my wife is Saudi. We speak mainly Arabic at home. This comes from a rule that my father in law had when he moved his family here from Saudi. They get more than enough English outside the home, at home they need to learn and stay with their own culture.

I am not sure how good the Arabic is that they get from me, but my wife and her family are fluent and it is very important to us that they have a firm grounding in both sides of their heritage.

I have met many Arab Americans who do not have a clue about their culture, language, or their religion. This isnt just bi-cultural kids, it is 100% Arab American kids themselves.

They dont read, write or speak the language, they have never been to their parent's country, and they feel completely alienated. This actually is one of the factors that feeds extremism. Many of these same kids buy into extremism that is pitched to them at many different levels of their local culture.

Here in the USA the most noticeable thing is the language. Many times I have started conversations in Arabic with Arab Americans, only to be told in an embarrased manner that I speak better Arabic than they do.

I remember once wearing a shirt that said "Phalasteen" in Arabic on it and being asked what the word said by a guy whose family came from Palestine when he was a child.

All of our children speak Arabic, and we will make sure to do what it takes to make sure they speak it well. I think that often bi-cultural kids are held to a higher standard because of perceptions that they are not "Arab" or even "Muslim" enough.

If one's culture and religion mean a lot to you, then you must approach an inter-cultural relationship carefully and very well thought out. It is not something you can do haphazzardly and then wonder 10 years down the road what went wrong.

Damascus and Cairo are probably the two best places in the MENA to learn Arabic and having been to both I can tell you there loads of Westerners and Arab Americans at both. This was pre-9/11, I am sure it is even more so now, although the reasons for traveling to learn Arabic might have changed a bit.