October 01, 2007
New Month Open Discussion
Since my extended absence has no doubt elevated me to the status of myth around here, thought I would show up randomly to announce our traditional new month open thread. This is where newbies introduce themselves and longtime readers complain about trivial nonsense.
Posted by eerie at October 1, 2007 11:41 AM
Filed Under: Site News
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You are mythed around here.
Posted by: matthew hogan at October 1, 2007 12:11 PM
From the article:
"An outspoken Dutch MP who fled to the United States in fear of her life after fiercely criticising Islam ..."
"Ms Hirsi Ali ... decided to emigrate to the US to work at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think-tank in Washington."
Now which one is it?
Posted by: Ali K at October 2, 2007 08:44 PM
SHe didn't run away from Netherlands until the government started threatening her.
Posted by: matthew h at October 2, 2007 10:17 PM
I read the other day that AHA has left the US and returned to the Netherlands because the Dutch government wouldn't continue to pay for her bodyguards while she lived in the US.
Posted by: SP at October 3, 2007 09:48 AM
From her memoir, it looks as though the Dutch gov't shelled out quite a bit in protective services, and she loved every second of it. I got so tired of her gleeful descriptions of brawny Dutch bodyguards. I think on some level she found it quite thrilling.
Posted by: eerie at October 3, 2007 11:39 AM
"I got so tired of her gleeful descriptions of brawny Dutch bodyguards."
Now you're teasing us with dribbles of Reviews Never to Come.
Posted by: matthew hogan at October 3, 2007 01:20 PM
"the Dutch gov't shelled out quite a bit in protective services"
Yep, 3.5 million euros.
Posted by: Ali K at October 3, 2007 01:51 PM
Posted by: Tom Scudder at October 3, 2007 04:15 PM
Ooooh. Brawny Dutch bodyguards, indeed. She probably found Washington a bit dull after the James Bond-esque lifestyle in Holland. Does she come across as one of those people who just needs the buzz of constant drama about them?
Posted by: SP at October 3, 2007 04:17 PM
Thanks for the link, Tom.
An interesting question: How much should taxpayers shell out to preserve a person's right to call Mohammed a pedophile? $5m is a lot of money to spend on one person's security.
I liked both of these quotes:
The American Embassy in The Hague said that the United States never pays security for private citizens.
Translation: We're not fucking paying.
The American Enterprise Institute declined to comment on whether it could pay some or all of Hirsi Ali's security costs.
Translation: We're not fucking paying EITHER.
What an excellent followup analysis for a review of the book Infidel.
Posted by: matthew hogan at October 3, 2007 06:47 PM
The AEI should pay. They offered her "sanctuary" in the US, so they should pony up the $$$.
Conversely, if Muslim groups in the Netherlands were to bring a lawsuit against Hirsi Ali for "defaming religion" or whatever it is that she did, and then WON that lawsuit, the Dutch gov't wouldn't have to pay the money anymore.
On second thought, I'm a torn on the issue. My views on Hirsi Ali is are public, yet I also think that she has the right to express her positions without having to fear being killed for them.
I don't quite see how giving her normal protection is THAT expensive.
Is she still a member of the Dutch parliament? Then she should get protection. Is she a private Dutch citizen? Then she shouldn't, just as no other private Dutch citizen gets protection abroad.
Posted by: MSK at October 4, 2007 04:16 AM
Cannot get this URL to resolve for me at the moment, my company may have decided to finally block YouTube or YouTube may be busy purging copyrighted content, but here's the truth about British jihadis.
Posted by: Antiquated Tory at October 4, 2007 05:31 AM
I'm sure the Netherlands have rules for how to finance protection for citizens under threat, whether from the mafia or abusive husbands or knife-wielding salafis. They should just apply them to her like everyone else, and stop making politics of it. (Anyway, now I'm also pretty excited about that review.)
Oh, and since this is an open thread, presumably open for suggestions -- you know what `Aqoul should have? Polls.
Posted by: alle at October 4, 2007 06:51 AM
I have a very simple question, and I would be grateful if any of you can find time to address it. I was told that there is no word in Arabic for "Israeli", i.e. that the word 'yahoodi' is used both for 'Jew' and 'Israeli'. I checked a couple of on-line English-Arabic dictionaries, and although I can't read Arabic, it seems clear that they offer two different words for 'Israeli' and 'Jew'. So that claim seems to be wrong.
However, it left me wondering if the origin of the claim is that perhaps in everyday use, at least in some Arab countries, it is common to use 'yahoodi' to mean both 'Israeli' and 'Jew'. Is there any truth to that, for the Arab countries you are familiar with?
Thanks in advance.
Posted by: alenar at October 4, 2007 07:28 AM
Monkey Dust. Here's another one: Jewblondski
Posted by: Ali K at October 4, 2007 08:37 AM
Posted by: alle at October 4, 2007 11:11 AM
That's sheer bollocks. The Arabic for Israel is.... Israel, and one makes Israeli from that by, well, merely adding i. Quite common really.
The claim is not merely wrong, it's outright fabrication.
As to the second item, there are certainly some Arabic speakers that historically haven't liked to say "Israel" or "Israeli" for the modern entity Israel - but the usual substitute was Zionist. Of course in lazy usage say in the Sham / Levant, people often say Jew to mean Israeli or vice-versa since for neighbouring countries most Jews are Israelis.
But most of the silliness of saying Zionist and Zionist State to avoid saying Israel died out years ago. It was big in the 70s, early 80s I would say.
Whoever made the claim is (i) wildly distorting the facts, (ii) also badly outdated.
Posted by: The Lounsbury at October 4, 2007 01:48 PM
Apparently Ayaan Hirsi Ali managed to become a U.S. permanent resident, in spite of previous immigraiton fraud - bonus points to anyone who can find info on under what immigration category, and whether she had to file a waiver to overcome the previous fraud issue. If you can, there may be a very snarky future Aqoul post on the subject.
Posted by: Eva Luna at October 4, 2007 03:00 PM
A) Maybe she got married.
B) Alien of exceptional/extraordinary ability.
Saw the Liberty thing, planning a followup, I'll downgrade probably mistaken identity to maybe mistaken identity. (There;s really not much new there, there's more pointed stuff from CIA FOIA website.
Posted by: matthew hogan at October 4, 2007 07:25 PM
I may be mistaken but I think the word Israel also appears in the Quran once or more times.
Posted by: matthew hogan at October 4, 2007 07:37 PM
It does indeed, in the context of course of Abrahamic history / references.
Posted by: The Lounsbury at October 4, 2007 07:42 PM
Many thanks for the information. It's highly frustrating to be offered such 'facts', suspect them to be false, but just not being able to refute them on the spot.
Posted by: alenar at October 5, 2007 06:21 AM
I remember some relatively respectable British comedy (a married couple in the publishing field keeping their marriage a secret because they both worked for the same company that had a no-relatives policy)and one story involved an Arabic dictionary in which a character noted there had been controversy because there was no Arabic for "Israel" and further on as a punchline, one looked for the word for "video" only to find out (assuming I guess it was in roman alphabet) it was "video".
Even though there is no "v" in Arabic.
Posted by: matthew hogan at October 5, 2007 09:03 AM
Among other such things I've heard -- that the word love does not appear in the Quran, etc.
Posted by: matthew hogan at October 5, 2007 09:05 AM
the name for the Jews in the Qur'an is indeed 'bani Israil' or the 'tribe of Israel' - and the Arabic name of Israil as with the Hebrew Israel derives from 'the one who struggles with God' ('el being a name of God in Hebrew for those who don't follow) - I'm not sure of the derivation of 'Yahood' in Arabic, but the 'i' is just a possessive, marking attachment.
Arabs avoiding using the phrase obviously were in denial of the existence of the country - offensive from Saudis who use a family name for their state, understandable from Palestinians who've lost a home and don't want to offer their oppressors any legitimacy.
the idea that 'Love' doesn't appear in the Qur'an is idiotic - searching reveals the following
The query [love] generated the following matches:
Translations of the Qur'an
002.093 002.105 002.165 002.177 002.190 002.205 002.216 002.276 003.014 003.031 003.032 003.057 003.092 003.103 003.118 003.119 003.140 003.188 004.036 004.073 004.107 004.148 005.054 005.064 005.082 005.087 006.076 006.141 007.031 007.055 007.079 007.189 008.058 009.007 009.023 009.108 012.030 014.003 014.037 016.023 016.107 019.096 020.039 021.090 022.038 022.059 024.019 024.022 028.056 028.076 028.077 029.025 030.021 030.045 031.015 031.018 038.032 042.023 042.040 049.012 057.023 059.009 060.001 060.007 061.013 075.020 076.008 076.027 089.020 100.008
and particularly for romantic love: 030.021 (Surah al-Rum, ayat 21):
'SHAKIR: And one of His signs is that He created mates for you from yourselves that you may find rest in them, and He put between you love and compassion; most surely there are signs in this for a people who reflect.'
or for Love of God: 003.031 (Surah al-Imran, 31)
'SHAKIR: Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.'
Posted by: dawud at October 5, 2007 12:22 PM
the name change, incidentally, of Israel from Isaac, as the son of Abraham was better known before he (according to biblical story) decided to fight with the angel and was given the name of the 'one who struggles with God' - I had a Jewish friend tell me once that that name reflects the Jewish struggle with faith and covenant since, reflected in the 'HeadHeeb' (Jonathan Edelstein of http://headheeb.blogmosis.com/) slogan for his blog 'Knocking down 4000 years of icons'
Posted by: dawud at October 5, 2007 12:35 PM
Matthew - arabic for video is "feedeyoo," surely?
For future reference, alenar, you could download the Verbace program and it will give you the arabic word for any english one you click on, and vice versa. It's a fairly small program too.
Posted by: SP at October 5, 2007 12:59 PM
I am not sure it is correct that in Arabic Israel derives from 'the one who struggles with God' since the word is not Arabic. The ancient israelites didn't speak Arabic did they? It is actually taken from either Hebrew or an earlier semetic language.
Similarly with Yahudi - from the Hebrew Yehudi (someone from Judah). Just as Jew is derived from Yehudi through Greek and Latin.
Posted by: Ali K at October 5, 2007 05:28 PM
"Even though there is no "v" in Arabic."
There is indeed 'v' in Arabic as it is spoken today.
Although you probably meant there is no letter 'v' (usually substituted with a fa with three dots).
Posted by: Ali K at October 5, 2007 05:42 PM
Random: Henry Rollins was in Syria and Lebanon this summer. (July 17-24) Nothing fantastically interesting there, but anyway.
Posted by: Tom Scudder at October 5, 2007 06:15 PM
Miller Center of Public Affairs, University of Virginia
The Crocker/Petraeus Report: What Does it Really Mean?
Video of presentation by W. Patrick Lang from October 3, 2007
From the webpage:
Description: Colonel W. Patrick Lang, a retired senior officer of the U.S. Military Intelligence and U.S. Army Special Forces, trained as a Middle East specialist and served there for many years. He was the first professor of Arabic at the United States Military Academy at West Point, and served as the Defense Intelligence Officer for the Middle East, South Asia, and Terrorism. Colonel Lang is also an analyst for many television news broadcasts.
Posted by: PseudoCyAnts at October 6, 2007 01:06 AM
AHA still has a fan-club among beltway idiots:
Posted by: SP at October 8, 2007 03:01 AM
Iranian human rights group have started a campaign to lobby the US Congress to cut off funding for Iranian human rights groups (WaPo). Apparently they think it does no good and counter-productively smears reformers with the Bush Brush. Fascinating.
Posted by: alle at October 12, 2007 11:26 AM
Am I the only one who finds it funny, in a Monty Python sort of way, that major US dailies can on the one hand spend page after page debating back and forth whether Messrs. Mearsheimer & Walt are anti-Semites, or not, for proposing that forty years of near-consensus on backing Israel has managed to distort US debate on the Palestinian issue ...
... while on the other, much the same newspapers find it completely non-newsworthy that the most prominent Republican presidential candidate now proudly surrounds himself with advisers who advocate razing Palestinian villages, believe that the US must destroy Iran to win World War Four, and think anyone who learns Arabic is liable to become an extremist, while a less prominent Republican candidate just came out in favor of ethnic cleansing? And that Democrats are apparently unwilling to attack them on these points, fearing they would lose votes?
Posted by: alle at October 13, 2007 06:52 PM
Ali K and MSK, to get back to an earlier question - I had been under the impression that Mme. Ali left the Netherlands after a falling out with her party when the government refused to pay for security any more, but the Reason interview that Eerie posted suggests she had been exploring options in the US earlier and left of her own accord after deciding her party didn't stand a good enough chance to make it worthwhile to run again. Of course, her champions (Rushdie, Hitchens) make it sound like she had to flee the mullahs in the dead of the night.
Posted by: SP at October 14, 2007 03:22 AM
Not sure if this has made the rounds yet, but The Ten Word Arabic Primer is hilarious and possibly slightly useful. It understates the flexibility of the word "fi" (spelled "fie" for some unknown reason), though.
Posted by: Tom Scudder at October 15, 2007 08:52 AM