"Join Mauretania...."

On what planet is Mauretania a democracy? An election after a coup-d'etat is hardly "democracy" by any rational basis. Well except for Americans perhaps.

I would opine, by the way, that Morocco is far enough away from Israel that MEMRI's obsessions and agendas recede somewhat.

I shall perhaps post an anecdote about questions posed to me recently (relatively) as a foreign investor type by certain types of people as to whether FDI would flee w PJD victory. My answer was no, actually I think most investors would be encouraged by a well-managed election.

WINEP has often surprised me with high-quality reports, actually. I remember a recent one about Basra that was excellent.

About Mauritania, I'd say it's now a constitutionally and politically democracy by most formal definitions, even if in practice the change for ordinary people since 2005 is minimal (could it be otherwise?). The elections held after the coup were free, honest, well-run, contested, essentially neutral etc, and even if the pro-regime candidate won the presidency (by a narrow 53-47%) it didn't seem to be because of government meddling, and no one complained about the score.

Also, the press is more or less free, no prisoners of conscience, no blatant constitutional violations, etc. But since the country is on the social level still essentially feudal, if even that, the present openness will be lucky to last another election, esp. given rumors of continued meddling from the ex-junta. Lot's of countries can pull off one free election, two's the issue. Still, it could happen (think Mali) even if it's an open question whether that will help much economically and otherwise (think Mali).

Well, Mauritania can claim at least one of these which no other government in the region can. Of course there are many other major issues in Mauritania that one can think of, including the fact that probably 20% of the population is enslaved. But Mauritania appears headed in the right direction.

Right, mate, the key is the DATA SET.

Well aware of Mali (and arguably relative to the utter disaster of the non-democratic regime the anemic positives of democracy are a win for the population), but Mali isn't as deeply fucked up as Mauretania and has managed a decade of reasonable elections.

Calling Mauretania a democracy .... well that's a level of optimism I'd not engage in (never mind the sheer ridiculousness of benchmarking any of the core Maghreb against bloody Mauretania - of course for MEMRI Mauretania must be a peachy place).

Also, the press is more or less free, no prisoners of conscience

I could introduce you to a couple of people who either by themselves, or through their family members, tasted first hand the democracy and "no prisoners of conscience" of Mauritania. In one case at least, I've witnessed it.

of course for MEMRI Mauretania must be a peachy place

Being the only Arab country with diplomatic relations with Israel besides the two neighbors, you bet it is.

Are we talking of the Mauretania of this year, that is, after the free and fair presidential elections they've just had, which makes them the first Maghrebi country ever to have a freely elected head of state?

Are we talking of the Mauretania of this year, that is, after the free and fair presidential elections they've just had, which makes them the first Maghrebi country ever to have a freely elected head of state?

lounsbury -- Calling Mauretania a democracy .... well that's a level of optimism I'd not engage in

Well, I guess it's partly semantics. It's not a very "free country" in any meaningful sense of the word, but as I see it, at this moment, it has a political system that deserves to be called democratic -- meaning free elections and the other basics. But of course, that's until further notice, and means only so much on any practical level for people other than political scientists. Will it last? Hope so, but I wouldn't bet on it.

shaheen -- I could introduce you to a couple of people who either by themselves, or through their family members, tasted first hand the democracy and "no prisoners of conscience" of Mauritania. In one case at least, I've witnessed it.

Hm. Recently, or something that happened before the 2005-07 transition?

I think we can all agree that MEMRI's translations are factual. As a group that is intent on presenting Arabic information in English, they would lose total credibility if they had mis-translated even one sentence of text. Thus, it remains, that they have provided the world with correct translations and yet the liberal and Muslim media chooses to pick on MEMRI for revealing such provocations, as opposed to being shocked by the content of the message.

My alltime favorite "mistranslation" is when the Western media, including MEMRI translated Ahmaghinejad as saying "we will wipe Israel off the map." As if you have to get into semantics when talking about a soveriegn countries destruction!

You are all the same group who thought Germany was justified in the Nuremberg Laws because you felt the Jews actually did have too much control on the poor Germans. Another case of a misconception that the Jews are conspiring to enslave humanity by giving them a conscience.

and, Persian Jew, you're making the mistake of reading a descriptive for a general indication ('Jews' or 'Israeli Zionists' are preparing for war, this is bad) when a group amongst the Jews is meant, and interpreting that in a 'collective punishment' sense, that all Jews (or all Americans or all Palestinians or all Muslims) are meant, a classical sign of paranoia and a victim mentality - unhealthy in either case, but much more so when one has ceased really being a victim and has instead become incredibly powerful, with the largest and most army in the world in America's case and the most powerful army in the Middle East in Israel's...

you also view everything through the lens of the Holocaust and the Nuremberg tribunals - understandable given Jewish experiences in Europe and the horrible trauma of that experience, just as Palestinians who have only experienced Jews as 'Zionist occupation soldiers' view all Jews through that lens is understandable, but horrible and ugly when it translates into racist and anti-Semitic violence and rhetoric - understandable, but unacceptable to act upon.

Difficult to understand? Care to have me repeat that? MEMRI is far more clever than you seem to give it credit for, and that they generally quote accurately, although aqoul is the wrong place for you to insist that they always do that (please see previous posts and translations, say of the Wafa Sultan and al-Azhar debate, where several sources acknowledged that they had taken the MEMRI translation at face value in error) - and I should ignore that Yigal Carmon's background is in military intelligence, not say, from Hebrew University's translation department?

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute

Well, no we can't agree:

think we can all agree that MEMRI's translations are factual. As a group that is intent on presenting Arabic information in English, they would lose total credibility if they had mis-translated even one sentence of text.

As an assertion that's utter and complete tripe.

Translation being inexact under the best of circumstances, and given most consumers of MEMRI have no ability to cross-check, MEMRI has in fact quite a bit of wiggle room in spinning its translations. Never mind the distorted editing that we here have pointed out.

The assertion is mere hand waving.

Thus, it remains, that they have provided the world with correct translations and yet the liberal and Muslim media chooses to pick on MEMRI for revealing such provocations, as opposed to being shocked by the content of the message.

Well, I am no Liberal - presumably you mean it in the American sense American boy - but I do know Arabic well enough neither to be shocked by MEMRI's agitprop, nor decieved by its pretensions of providing a view of the Arabic press (or rather its trawling to find the most provactive texts to push its point of view of a dangerous Arab - Islamic world).

I do find telling your characterisation supra "Liberal [Left]" and Muslim.

Save it for another venue, my dear Little American ('Persian').

My alltime favorite "mistranslation" is when the Western media, including MEMRI translated Ahmaghinejad as saying "we will wipe Israel off the map." As if you have to get into semantics when talking about a soveriegn countries destruction!

Eh?

Well, yes, like Kruschev's bury you, semeantics in translation are oft important, although on Farsi translation I haven't an opinion.

You are all the same group who thought Germany was justified in the Nuremberg Laws because you felt the Jews actually did have too much control on the poor Germans. Another case of a misconception that the Jews are conspiring to enslave humanity by giving them a conscience.

Ah, accusing me of being a Nazi sympathiser. How very... trite. And boring.

Now fuck off, silly American poseur.

Please don't feed the troll. Although I notice subjectively an uptick in trolling of places that are pointing out the Iran war push. Hmmm.......

Oh, on MEMRI, assuming our visitor is in good faith, here's the point:

MEMRI translations are to the Arab-Muslim Middle East what "The Daily Show" newsclips are to George Bush. Sure they're mostly accurate and undoctored but you can just almsot see the MEMRI people putting on that bemused fake-puzzled did-you-hear that inanity expression that Jon Stewart would do on the Daily Show after an out of context clip of some silly thing the President may have actually said.

Accurate, but. . . you know what they're doing -- happily providing a caricature for ridicule.

You're being generous, Matthew - there's been quite a few examples of botched translations on MEMRI's part.

I think in many ways our Pun-Dit has almost put his finger on things.

The issue with MEMRI of course is almost never (at least to my knowledge) outright fabrication, but rather spin. Everyone makes mistakes in translation, itself subjective, but the fact MEMRI's translations, every single time I look at them go for the most negative rendition, and often seem to go out of their way to imply things that I shall say generously are not necessarily evident in a plain reading of a text say to me with their "all errors in one direction" that they play chop and select to push a particular vision.

I suppose in a way like this Daily Show (although I have never seen it, I think I get the picture - selection of clips, and editing of said clips to render the subject in the most unflattering light possible). Fabricated as such? Not usually, but fabricated as overall impression, yes.

MEMRI is edited for satire, that's an easy way to explain it.

"My alltime favorite "mistranslation" is when the Western media, including MEMRI translated Ahmaghinejad as saying "we will wipe Israel off the map." As if you have to get into semantics when talking about a soveriegn countries destruction!"

What the hell are you talking about?!?

Ahmedinejad provoked so much - IMHO mostly contrived - outrage precisely because of the words he supposedly said, not because of any actions he did or did not take. Therefore, the exact words he used are precisely the point. Almost all qualified Farsi experts agree that the Prez did not in fact say "Israel should be destroyed", but instead predicted that the Zionist regime will wither away, just as the USSR and the Shah's regime in his own country did. Now, you may disagree with the sentiments expressed, but what is clear is that Ahmedinejad was obviously not advocating genocide, as some of the more hysterical Israelist pundits continue to suggest.

Regarding MEMRI, I agree with above posters that they do not produce outright fakery, but their distortions and 'editing' - as well as their very politicised choice of just what to translate - make them highly unreliable as a source. Here's an example from the Angry Arab, who DOES know Arabic:

http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2007/05/lies-of-memri-yet-again.html

one more thing - the Daily Show is conscious of it's satire and irony - as Jon Stewart says, "I've made the President into a cartoon" - and MEMRI quite lacks both the humor, comic timing, and good-natured willingness to hear the other side out (witness the numerous visits by McCain, Bush cronies, and the recent visit by ex-Fed chief Greenspan)

I agree that it's malicious agitprop with a dishonest pretense to innocence, but the Daily Show is a good way to explain it to folks who might otherwise take MEMRI seriously and respond by saying "It's accurate and it's TAROOO".