"So what in the name of good and evil are we supposed to do about it?"

We can preemptively dhimmify them.

On a more serious note(well its about the right blogosphere...but still...suppress your giggles)I've seen a lot of people advocating the internment of Muslims in North America.Atlas Shrugs, in her brilliantly black and white, self righteous mode, has written about it at length.

Heck, she's even gone as far as to justify the internment of the Japanese...so that we have a nice comfy precedent to fall back on.

OK Saim, we know what crazy people are advocating and for that matter doing (though I'm not convinced the Glasgow car attack was a suicide bomber. I understand that someone in the car was on fire at the time it hit the airport. I think they were trying to deep fry something while driving and it all went horribly wrong.). But what the Hell are sane people supposed to do?

Well they can try and tighten up immigration from muslim countries, but the problem is "home grown" terror. What to do there? I cannot see Britain ever passing some post-apocalyptic style law that stripped UK-born terrorists of citizenship and forcibly deported them to their countries of ancestral origin (though frankly they fucking well deserve it).

If these people had genuinely lived shit lives in the UK and suffered appalling discrimination in our society one could empathise, but they haven't, they include doctors and teachers. They have had the best of the UK's system and the way they behave makes me wonder, using my own current emotions as a barometer, whether we will see a BNP party in power by the end of the decade? Or certainly more than a few BNP MPs.

I think many problems have to do with grossly irresponsible politicans who sensationalise these things. When the field-experienced jihadists come home from Iraq one day, I can't imagine how bad things are going to get. Ah, bloody hell. Politicians have so lost it, seem to believe leadership is about hyping threats rather than asking people to keep calm.

Klaus, people may start thinking you like Adam Curtis ("Power of Nightmares" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares - and the debunked neo-con conspiracy of a "clash of civilizations" rather than a "clash of the uncivilized" to use Imam Zaid's eloquent phrase)

AT, I was in the UK for a few days, saw the good conditions of many muslims, and wondered what you lot did. "What the hell?" - but alienation is a funny business, people are alone in their minds, and there are people who feel it's their duty, in the words of the 60s radical Weathermen, to "bring the war back home"... people who watch too much tv, feel their neighbours resent them - fairly or unfairly - and want to see them hurt as they feel their "brothers and sisters" hurt.

The last lot of bombings weren't carried out by competent people, and there may be a message in that as well as the timing, that this group is desperate. Yet we should consider that this will only get worse, and security and contingency plans should already be made by the British muslim community as well as the British government, to deal with the fall-out.

I don't trust "Bliar"'s crew, and resent all the liars and hypocrites who represent Western democracy, but certainly killing civilians is not acceptable by Shari'ah, and vile and evil by any account. If they want to kill themselves, I'm not in a position to stop them, and perhaps the UK should set up a 'jihadi-euthansia' club - heh, or
alternatively, give them free one-way plane tickets to the 'jihad zone' of their choice, along with a non-revokable travel card which reads: "The bearer refused British hospitality and sanctuary, and wants to die. Please assist, without let or difficulty, in this endeavour."

This isn't really a case of homegrown terrorism according to the latest news. The suggestion is that they're Iraqis or Jordanians (Or both). I'm not sure if that materially changes anything but it certainly should preclude too much guff about the 'Muslim commmunity', as if the Pakistanis, Indians, Bangladeshis, Turks, Arabs, Iranians, Nigerians, Somalis etc.. live in some kind of walled village.

This isn't really a case of homegrown terrorism according to the latest news. The suggestion is that they're Iraqis or Jordanians (Or both). I'm not sure if that materially changes anything but it certainly should preclude too much guff about the 'Muslim commmunity', as if the Pakistanis, Indians, Bangladeshis, Turks, Arabs, Iranians, Nigerians, Somalis etc.. live in some kind of walled village.

"So what in the name of good and evil are we supposed to do about it?"

Cointelpro, operation Condor, PR that's aimed at the sea in which the fish swim instead of neo cons.

dawud, I rather like it, The Power Of Nightmares. I can't vouch for the actual claims it made on Algeria and the disembodied nature of al-Qaeda (which is why I brought its claims on Algeria up here for expert review), but its portrait of the dynamics is spot on, I think. Caught it only some months ago, to find it expressed my thoughts a few years earlier than they arrived in my mind. Blast it, these past years have been like...being trapped in a vortex of stupidity.

But the problem with imported extremist imams preaching to alienated youths who already watch too much Evil-Zionism indulgent satellite TV from the MidEast is very real, and it annoys me no end when lefties decry such claims as racist. These kids haven't got a fucking chance in the face of all the hardships they have to endure. But I'm a fluffy soft leftie myself, thinking like that. Maybe a ban on foreign religious preachers, but I have no idea how such a law should be fleshed out in an acceptable non-discriminating way.

as if the Pakistanis, Indians, Bangladeshis, Turks, Arabs, Iranians, Nigerians, Somalis etc.. live in some kind of walled village.

The problem is that some of them do. They live in all-immigrant communities, the kids go to religious run schools, they are expected to follow cultural traditions from the homeland (there was a harrowing article I read a while back about the impact of "family" - ie forced - marriage on young men, the issues with young women are well documented but young muslim men suffer oppression too), there are older generations that never learnt English, new arrivals that never learn, such a new bride or bridegroom for an arranged marriage, etc.

Of course these people represent a small minority of migrants, most of whom have integrated into mainstream society to some extent, if not fully. But there are certainly British migrants effectively living in walled villages.

I remember when I worked in the North of England there was a middle aged policeman who had gone voluntarily to study Bangla at nightschool (cycling miles every night in the freezing winter cold etc etc as his wife needed the car) so he could communicate with the people on his beat. A lovely story, sure, but what does that say about the integration of people in that community into mainstream English speaking Britain? Speaking only Bangla they will never get jobs outside their own community, almost certainly not marry outside their own community, or study outside. Walled villages.

SD,
A Bangladeshi enclave is not the same thing as a Muslim enclave. If all the above mentioned national/ethnic groups all converged together you would have a point. Otherwise all you are seeing as national groups living together. The notion of a coherent singular Muslim community only reinforces the same 'community groups' (I'm thinking of the MCB) whose political and economic interest is to keep Muslims seperate. Part of the problem is that the high proportion of South Asians amongst British Muslims means that people aee confusing the two. So the problems of a poor rural (in origin), socially conservative minority are generalised to all Muslims in the UK.

What links the Mashriq Arabs in West London to the small-business owning Turks to the working class Yorkshire Kashmiris? By envoking the singular community you only force people into the very identity ghetto you're trying to avoid.

I don't disagree - my point is that "walled" communities of a particular migrant group can occur, resulting in members of that group being cut off from mainstream society.

Though obviously if there was a Pakistani enclave it would almost certainly also be a Muslim enclave by default, but that's not the issue. The issue is that it is possible in 21st century Britain for any particular group of people to segregate themselves quite fully if they want to.

SD, what you describe is classic immigrant behaviour, which whites endulge in with equal fervour when they move abroad in large numbers. Witness the various European enclaves in Spain, you could move into the Danish ghetto and never have to speak or learn a word Spanish. But, since these migrants are retirees with fat pension savings, they don't have to. As much as I reprehend their voluntary segregation, they don't pay the price that young people who need to become part of the surrounding society do.

Also, it's pretty widespread behaviour, not just a small minority. It differs from country to country and from ethnicity to ethnicity. But in Denmark at least, there is very little real contact between indigenous whites and browns, also Turks and Somalis by and large keep to themselves. Whites also flee like...something that flees really fast...when brown children start appearing at their own childrens' school.

These problems would solve themselves over time, melting pot style, but for the arranged marriages which keep resetting the clock by fetching a spouse in the old country. Which is why I like the 24-years rule I spoke of in a previous comment thread.