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September 26, 2006
Indigènes: Underlining fallacious framing

I thought I might return to a film that I have mentioned in the past since it is now out in the cinemas, at least in Europe, Indigènes, which tells a story that, as a French historian puts it in his discussion of the film, has been "obscured" in French and generally in Western recounting of WWII (and Maghrebine of their own history, at least following the anti-colonial reaction). I confess my personal interest arises from a family connexion with the tale, insofar as one of my grandfathers was a naval officer transported these fellows across the Med...
That is, the participation - indeed the dominant role of Muslim African (be they Maghrebine or sub-Saharan) soldiers in the "French" army liberating France - an item that I have mentioned in the past in connexion with the idiocy of ignoramuses such as Irshad Manji tying the Islamic world to the Nazis. It is also an item of interest in reflecting on the fallaciousness of simple minded Clash of Civilisation whanking on.
Posted by The Lounsbury at September 26, 2006 06:10 PM
Filed Under: Islam General
, North Africa
, Reviews
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Comments
Well, if you wanted to tie the Arab world back with Fascism, there's always the large number of Moroccan soldiers in Franco's army.
I don't think either that or the North Africans in the Free French Army says much about Islamic relations to Nazis per se. Certainly there were elements in the Arab world who viewed the Nazis as enemies of their enemy, just as there were in Indian nationalism. (And I'm sure the British were kicking themselves for manoeuvering one of these guys into a job as Grand Mufti in Jerusalem.) But then as now, I suspect that opinions among 'Moslems' or even just 'Arabs' were so diverse and contentious that no generalizations can be made.
Posted by: Antiquated Tory at September 27, 2006 06:26 AM
Speaking of "fallacious framing", is anybody else seeing the Google Ad for "The Truth About Muhammad"?
Posted by: blue92 at September 27, 2006 09:34 AM
Blue: Yep. Just filtered it out. Google's idea of "relevance" isn't always spot-on.
Posted by: eerie
at September 27, 2006 06:31 PM
In my misplaced sense of fair play, I went over to the Amazon page for the book in question and skimmed through the "discussions" section.
I wish I could say I was disappointed, even unpleasantly so, but I guess I'm just to point of accepting that people are blazing morons. Ethnics, farmers, gays, and patriots can have their little pride parades, but for imbeciles the world is one everlasting Mardi Gras.
Posted by: blue92 at September 27, 2006 10:49 PM
I don't think either that or the North Africans in the Free French Army says much about Islamic relations to Nazis per se...But then as now, I suspect that opinions among 'Moslems' or even just 'Arabs' were so diverse and contentious that no generalizations can be made.
This is the point L was making with his reference to Irshad Manji. She has a nasty habit of making sweeping generalizations about the Islamic world supporting Nazis, being complicit in the Holocaust, etc based on anecdotal evidence. There is a post about this issue in our archives.
Posted by: eerie
at September 28, 2006 11:55 AM
Blue: In my misplaced sense of fair play, I went over to the Amazon page for the book in question and skimmed through the "discussions" section.
You're sick, get help.
Posted by: eerie
at September 28, 2006 11:56 AM
Well, it's still metaphysically possible for intelligent opinions to arise anywhere.
Also there's a certain amusement value.
Posted by: blue92 at September 28, 2006 12:57 PM
True, all things are possible in the universe given infinite time. I might sprout a second head any minute now.
You should take a look at the Amazon reviews for the romance novels I read a few weeks back. Averaging 4.5-5 stars, ha.
Posted by: eerie
at September 28, 2006 01:03 PM
> I might sprout a second head any minute now.
And your quest for YouTube stardom would be complete.
Posted by: blue92 at September 28, 2006 01:27 PM
Well, now I have seen the movie, and liked it. My French is unfortunately a bit too poor to catch all the dialogue (except the parts in Arabic, which were subtitled), but, I got most of it. And since it's basically a war movie, it wasn't too hard to follow anyway.
I liked it, but then I've got a weak spot for both war movies & politics, so others may disagree. Like a Maghrebine Muslim version of Saving Private Ryan (complete with a heroic last stand in a pretty French village in the end), with quite a lot of politics thrown in on top. And generally good acting.
Apparently Bouchareb's next project is a film on the Algerian colonisation and the Sétif massacres, as a follow-up to this one, to be released in two years. Very interesting if it works out.
Posted by: alle at October 11, 2006 03:48 PM

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