ya abu l-maal,

i remember having fierce debates in '95 with an afghan friend of mine (a woman) about the taliban's ascendance. i argued that while they were ending the rule of the warlords, they were also establishing a very tight islamist political and moralist system in the areas they took over. my friend, a "westernized" young woman who'd grown up in nyc, said "yes, that might be true, but you don't understand - after 15 years of war, peace is more important."

of course, somalia and afghanistan are not the same. in somalia, even the traditional view of women in the society was/is not as strict as in afghanistan. but i think what is comparable (and also to situations in other areas ravaged by long-term conflict) is that an exhausted population will, at some point, get to a point where it will welcome ANYone bringing peace & stability.

--raf*

beggars can't be choosers.

in bad times, people fall under the conservative influence. nothing new here. just look at the USA post-9/11.

raf,

You arent sure these women are more considered about the burkah? LOL

dear bikhair,

i'm afraid i did not understand your comment.

dear all,

seems to be a good week for articles about somalia. here's the next one, this time in the NYT:

In Somalia, Islamists begin cultural assault

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/06/19/news/somalia.php

cheers,

--raf*

raf,

"...will welcome ANYone bringing peace & stability."

What is a society without the above? Certainly not one that can rebuild and move on. The smartest thing anyone can do in a country is bring back stability, so the roads, water, agriculture, and everything else can follow. It shouldnt be viewed as some awful resignation of their future.

to escape the dreadful stench of the hundred-years-flower, Krusty the Clown dives into a mound of dung. 'Ah, yes! That's mildly better.'

dear klaus,

there really is no situation to which "the simpsons" doesn't have an answer. BRILLIANT!

dear bikhair,

thanks for the explanation. obviously we all agree with the general idea (must have peace to rebuild). the thing is, the taliban did not have the internal professional capability to rebuild anything - even though they certainly had access to $$$ - & the lot of the afghan population was not improved at all, not even on the basic economic/social level.

and i wasn't commenting on the fact that people in afghanistan (or now, somalia) think that way. but in '95 i'd been discussing it with a young afghan woman who'd grown up in nyc, studied at nyu, etc.

and SHE (a) couldn't conceptualize the full meaning of a taliban take-over of afghanistan (or even parts of it) for the people living there and (b) put high hopes in it.

a (not 100% similar) anecdote from palestine in '98 (the "good old days" when the p.a. had just taken control over gaza & the 7 cities in the westbank & everyone was optimistic about the oslo accords): i was talking to a shopkeeper in nablus about the situation & he said, "it was better under the israelis." i was surprised, and he explained, "well, yeah it was an occupation, but at least we had work and could export to israel and there was no violence. now the economy is going down the drain and we have a corrupt regime & we still don't have a free society." - on that note, the palestinian elections didn't deliver a pro-hamas, but an anti-fatah vote.

and similarly, in somalia, the people aren't happy about the islamists taking over - they're relieved that the warlords are gone.

--raf*

This is probably not the right place for this, but I couldn't believe y'all hadn't discussed the Haifa Wawa song video yet. C'mon, dissect it, shred it!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4559854674036497542&q=haifa

well, yeah it was an occupation, but at least we had work and could export to israel and there was no violence. now the economy is going down the drain and we have a corrupt regime & we still don't have a free society.

Sounds awfully like post-Soviet pensioners reminiscing about "the good old days" under Brezhnev.

SP: thanks for the soft-core porn. just the pick-me-up i needed this evening.

Taht amrak, Drdougfir, though I was thinking more gender analysis/Haifa competing with Nancy to make a social statement while still looking fetching/the regular presence of kids and family themes in Rotana clips, etc. But soft core porn is legit too, I suppose.

dear sp,

saw the video. 6 minutes of my life i'll never get back. that's one of the most boring vids ever. you OWE me.

if you want to start a discussion ... well ... how about ... uh ... START it?

cheers,

--raf*

Ya raf,
Boring? I thought that was hilarious (unintentionally of course).

Why do you suppose Haifa did the Hot Single Mom story in the video - is she trying to make some sort of social statement? I remember hearing recently that she had made a big deal of getting an HIV test and saw herself as spreading awareness about AIDS...

Is she playing Devoted Mommy or infantilized sexpot?

You see a fair number of family-themed stories in Rotana clips (kids, good daddies, even one memorable, clumsily-produced video clip that shows a woman rejecting a suitor for the sake of her young son and years later the son realizes what a sacrifice she made out of her devotion to him, etc). And you see a lot of sex kitten stuff. I can see the independent appeal of either, but a combination?

Discuss.

(You may say I'm reading too much into it and sometimes a video clip is just a video clip. And you may be right)

SP-

I think you may have hit upon one of those dualities that plague the arab world; Things which might seem at odds to the casual observer but which are completely compatible to the one doing the deed.(cf. leb tart prudes, seeking US citizenship, hijab with loud makeup, etc) In a way this is the defining characteristic of arab society.