Amost topical: What's Aqoul's take on this? http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/008026.php

The trouble with democracy and propagandizing: domestic audience votes, foreigners don't. Who do you propagandize to, the navel-gazing domestic people with ballots or uncouth foreigners who might be tossing bombs one day?

I find the voter angle as an explanation of an inability to develop agitprop completely irrelevant.

Other Western democracies develop agitprop with some value, the US inability in this area strikes me as derived from other issues, not democracy per se.

David

I have no idea, but I doubt that is Baghdad. Signage looks wrong, as well as the buildings.

Wierd claim on the part of the candidate.

I have no idea. But there aren't THAT many visible street signs - only 3 or 4, so Marshall's complaint about the lack of visible Arabic script is a bit off. (Especially if this is a westernized bit of the city, which it must be, if that woman with the sleeveless top is to be explained). For that matter, Western-looking billboard models are used a lot as well, at least in other Middle Eastern cities.

(And even if the picture is legit, the argument that because you can find one five-minute block of time where people are out on the streets going about their day's business, there is no civil war is obvious bullshit.)

However, this does seem like a convincing argument.

dear all,

the picture question has been solved. it's in turkey, most likely marmaris. check the various links.

end of story.

good example for how a politician lies to the voters.

not relevant to the post, though.

--raf*

Off topic, but I wanted to flag Martin Wolf's column in today's FT (3/29/06) where he kindly but firmly takes ex-US sovereigns to the shed for a global savings glut that he fingers as the predominant causal factor for the US current account deficit. The noneconomist will find it quite accessible. So run to your nearest Barnes and Noble today to read it for free while supplies last.

L., this is something i deal with on a daily basis, and it is very troubling.
It seems efforts to reach moderate muslims, or the pious middle, whatever you want to call it, consist largely of westerners pointing out how horrible Islam is (and how vastly inferior to christianity and other belief systems) and attacking them for
1. not vociferously condemning the jihaadis and fundamentalists
and 2. essentially, attacking them for not being just the same as us.
none of those approachs strikes me as exceptionally persuasive or as good propaganda.

good propaganda should be undetectable as such. it should be subtle and subversive.
Banging someone over the head with quotes from the haditha and yelling (sotto voce, i guess) "why don't you convert already?" is not exactly subtle.

sorry my thoughts are so scattered, but i just had to say something!
lunchtime's over, *sigh*

Jinnilyyah

I agree that US communications with the MENA world and Islamic world are just not well conceived or well done.

I find it irritating to witness ( as in al-Hurra ).

I am not sure that the Westerners attacking Islam issue is the same. That's more on the lines of public discourse, which is itself disappointing, and sadly sounds like the sorts of things my all-too Protestant forebears used to say about the Filthy Papists.

There are, of course, real issues, however the conflict of civilisations rhetoric strikes me as unhelpful and mostly overblown.

The issue is more of a concern personally when it has the potential of spilling into the business world and wrecking commercial relations. DPW was a key example of that kind of idiocy.

dear jinnilya,

ok. i've watched it for so long. and i've been quiet. but i just can't take it anymore.

the plural of hadiith (حديث) is ahaadith (احادث). arabic grammar is FUN.

gakh.

--raf*

Sorry, Raf, I'm afraid that in this case hadith has been sucked into the maelstrom that is English & now admits of a "s" plural, much like "sheikh".

(Not hawadith?)

Tom

Haouadith means fairy stories or something like that.... Afraid not the plural you'd want to apply politely.

dear tom,

hawaadith (حوادث) is the plural of haadith (حادث), meaning "occurance, event, incident, mishap (like a car accident)". there is also the plural form hidath (حداث) of the word hadiith (حديث) but in that case it's an adjective (new, recent)

so ... hadiith (حديث) with long i is "prophetic tradition" whereas haadith (حادث) with long a is "event".

hence:

hadiith / ahaadiith (حديث / احاديث) - prophetic tradition
hadiith / hidaath (حديث / حداث) - new, novel, recent
haadith / hawaadith (حادث / حوادث)- event, accident

--raf*

Oh, right, as in hawadith ihdash aylool &c. Got it.

oooooh, correct me again, raf!

nu, i love arabic, but i am not very good yet.
i hope to improve by hangin' around here.

shukran.