And here I thought you were on vacation. Addict.

But dead-on. The new Irshad Manji in the making appears to be . . . .

{drumroll}

MEMRI pin-up Wafa Sultan.

Two days is plenty of vacation for a workaholic.

Had to flog Irshad a bit, the issue has been banging around in my head since raf* posted the manifesto.

BTW that link just gave me a headache.

Granting readily that Irshad and her ilk have zero credibility in the Muslim world at large, I do wonder if they might not serve a useful purpose anyway. I'm sure we're all familiar with the political phenomenon of triangulation, whereby a bunch of nutters on one side and a bunch of fringies on the other can collectively allow for a third party to look moderate by comparison, whereas without the fringies said party would look like the extreme one.

So, Irshad et al, quite accidentally I'm sure, might possibly be laying useful groundwork for scholars representing the pious middle to safely stand up and support some classical liberal values (dressed in Islamic garb, of course), if only by being a useful prop to publically reject in order to build cred.

It's a thought, anyway. I don't have much time for her myself, and that's about the most spirited defense I can muster.

democracy & freedom = liberalism

so does this mean the current state of america is "theocratic totalitarian dicatorship?"

also, absolutely love NASCAR dads and soccer moms of the Islamic world

Matt: I've only recently started reading Tariq Ramadan, he may represent that middle-ground moderate you're describing. Western-educated scholar with equally strong Islamic credentials (his grandfather founded the Ikhwan, which means he is fundamentalist royalty to people like Pipes).

It is hard to credibly walk the line between East and West, I think.

I've attended a few conferences and even spoken personally to Tariq Ramadan. He's got a very bad reputation in France, unjustifiebly so imho, most of it being based on prejudices and him being Banna's grandson. Besides, as is often the case unfortunately, Muslims won't be considered "moderates" by many Westerners unless their only discourse is a total rejection of everything Muslim and related.

But Tariq Ramadan is definitely a reformer and a modernizer, he shakes many Muslim taboos. My personal critique of him is mainly on the amount of reform: I happen to be a proponent of "individual ijtihad" and I don't see a problem with departing from the basic Sunni tenets (even though I dislike Manji for the same reasons articulated by Tareq Fatah). Ramadan OTOH sticks to all Sunni basic tenets and say that a Muslim must do so. I acknowledge though that this is probably what makes more mainstream Muslims receptive to Ramadan's reformist argument than they are to other self-proclaimed liberal reformists who seem more to be there to speak to non-Muslims than to Muslims themselves.

I don’t think that there is anything necessarily wrong with the proposition of a new reformed Islam. Change is inevitable and people should pursue whatever makes them more content with the faith or practice they choose. However, the problem with Irshad Manji is her lack of knowledge about Islamic history, law and culture. Her book uses flimsy language and barely touches any surfaces or proposes any foreseeable solutions.

dear all,

shi'ites never closed their "gates of ijtihad". but i highly doubt that irshad manji & her ilk would approve of great mujtahids like khomeini or khamenei. (YES - it IS a conspiracy to have chosen a successor to khomeini who has almost the same name. that way it seems to non-iranian ears as if the grand old man is still around.)

thankfully, east of the atlantic ocean (or west of the pacific, if you prefer) irshad manji is entirely unknown.

--raf*

Odd that some Westerners think that Islam should be the first of the big three monotheistic faiths to reform itself according to the recommendations of a lesbian feminist semi-intellectual.

"Odd that some Westerners think that Islam should be the first of the big three monotheistic faiths to reform itself according to the recommendations of a lesbian feminist semi-intellectual."

That may be the aphorism of the day.

And no additional wisecracks regarding 17th century Queen Christina of Sweden.

Interesting that you mention Tariq Ramadan. I saw him speak a few years ago at a Uni. here in the Metro DC area, the pre-ban era.

I like him, but we must realise that even someone seen by Muslims as a reformer is considered so much of a hardliner, a conservative, that he is banned from the USA.

It makes their calls for "moderate Muslims" into a joke. For these people Nomani and Manjani are the only types that count, a Lesbian with no understanding of her own religion, and a mother of a child out of wedlock whose stated goal is sexual liberation (free sex without guilt) for all Muslim women. Neither are going to make the smallest difference, which I think is exactly the point.

Abu Sinan: Yes, exactly. It's interesting that the only "acceptable" reformers are ones that downplay the key tenets of Islam and advocate what is generally viewed as Western secularism without any visible spirituality.

Now, I am certainly an advocate of female Muslims playing a greater role in defining what Islam means to them, but that doesn't mean the answer to gender issues in Islam is to discard the religion's teachings altogether. Western-style feminism is not necessarily the only solution for the protection and preservation of women's rights, especially in non-Western societies.

Raf: Agreed, Manji's use of ijtihad is just clever sloganeering. She doesn't seem to have any understanding of legal theory beyond that.

Shaheen: Ramadan OTOH sticks to all Sunni basic tenets and say that a Muslim must do so. I acknowledge though that this is probably what makes more mainstream Muslims receptive to Ramadan's reformist argument than they are to other self-proclaimed liberal reformists

Have not read him enough, but I can see why he'd need to appear rather conservative to maintain credibility. As for defining one's own practice, I think that sort of reflection is very important provided that it's not simply for convenience (not that religion should be obstructive, but spiritual development should require some effort).

Not that apostates like me are in any position to comment on such things.

but we must realise that even someone seen by Muslims as a reformer is considered so much of a hardliner, a conservative, that he is banned from the USA.

More accurately, he was subject to a smear campaign by Pipes et al. re his work authorisation to work at a US Uni. He's not banned from the US per se.

This might be a bit offtopic, but since we're at it...

As for defining one's own practice, I think that sort of reflection is very important provided that it's not simply for convenience (...) spiritual development should require some effort. Not that apostates like me are in any position to comment on such things.

Several points:
- convenience is important (unless you're a masochist:))
- I don't think religion is so much about spiritual development, that's a quite Christian(ized) perception of religion imho - you can be an agnostic or even an atheist, and yet be a better Muslim than your two digits percent Muslims who are illiterate and who, by being so, violate the *first* commandment in the Quran (n'en deplaise aux Sunnis and their five pillars)
- Funnily enough, it is very often liberal Muslims (and "apostates") whom I've heard saying that religion is about ascetic practices (ok I'm exagerating here:)), that they need effort to become "good Muslims". Liberal Muslims have yet to reconcile their understanding of the world and that of their religion...

Shaheen: We probably agree, but I'm likely not being clear enough.

I don't think religion is so much about spiritual development, that's a quite Christian(ized) perception of religion imho

Well, broadly speaking, I view religion as a system of thought for contemplating things that can't be measured (where science would be a system for contemplating things that can be measured). For me, the point is to achieve an understanding of the universe (spiritual development is admittedly a blunt way to put this). This idea is not unique to Christianity or even Abrahamic religions in general.

you can be an agnostic or even an atheist, and yet be a better Muslim...

I'm not sure one can be a "Muslim" if they can't sincerely recite the shahada (i.e. because they are atheist). One can be a good person, certainly.

it is very often liberal Muslims (and "apostates") whom I've heard saying that religion is about ascetic practices

Well, as I see it, one applies the practices that achieve the correct ends (better understanding of the universe and one's place in it). OTOH, one should not follow rules mindlessly and expect to benefit. That is where the effort comes in. Personal reflection takes effort.

Bah, I have to run. This is a good discusion though.

Hi Eerie, shortly coz this is offtopic plus I'm short on time:)

I think where we differ is on the spiritual vs utilitarian view of religion. Mine is definitely utilitarian. I could dig a few verses and interpret if I had more time to support my position:) but basically, the idea is that, spirituality really is a non-issue, or maybe at most it could be one at a very personal level which shouldn't be humanity's (or God's) problem. Praying five times a day during your lifetime and passing out like a sheep with no difference made whatsoever isn't exactly my idea of being a good Muslim. Building something for yourself, and perhaps even for other Muslims as a bonus, is much more so than reciting the shahada.

On another subject, I might send you a "candidate entry" mail in the coming days. I've written in a forum before about MEMRI in a case where I had solid proof that they doctored a translation. Since they have been brought in recently here re Wafa Sultan, I thought it could be an opportunity to add some info about them. So I'll edit the thing when I have a few spare minutes and send you that. If you think it's postable, go ahead.

Great, looking forward to your entry!

Marhaba Shaheen Bey.

Looking forward to seeing more of you here.

Shaheen,
Though he rather predates Mohammad, Zoroaster expressed a similar sentiment. "He who sows the ground with care and diligence acquires a greater stock of religious merit than he could gain by the repetition of ten thousand prayers."

Islam is a very simple religion.Thats the reason some people,like me,convert to Islam.I belive that every man or woman in power today,wether eastern or western countries,should be a muslim and and abide by the fundamental principles set by the prophet Muhhamad,peace and blessings be upon him,and read and study the Qu'ran daily and religiously.