ya ukhti,

you said

Premarital Relationship Ethics of Arab Males 101: if she's sleeping with you, she's banging everyone else in town. Never figured out if this was a fundamental belief that all women are essentially tarts or some inferiority complexed sub-conscious inability to accept that said woman may be in fact sufficiently in love with any Arab man to stay loyal.

it's the first.

urfi marriages seem to be much, much worse than mut'a in shi'ite islam. there at least it's harder for the man to claim that it never happened, as they are done in front of a cleric.

the urfi problem in egypt reminds me of khalijis taking (2nd, 3rd, or 4th) wives when they summer in lebanon or syria (or even the egyptian "riviera") and then either divorce them at the end of the summer or simply drive back home and leave them behind without any clear ending of the legal relationship. some women see it as a simple deal of "he gets me for the summer & i get stuff from him & it's all legal", but others genuinely believe that they'll be moving to ksa/gulf and embark on a new (& better) life there.

--raf*

Well, on the rule, it is rather universal I should think.

What is rather universal? That men are unconscionable little shits or that women are naive simpletons?
Or both maybe?

"What is rather universal? That men are unconscionable little shits. . . ."

I'll go with that.

"or that women are naive simpletons?"

No comment.

I'm going to get some popcorn.

Gotta say that this woman appears to have a great family. It's encouraging and unusual to see her father giving her so much support.

What is rather universal? That men are unconscionable little shits or that women are naive simpletons?
Or both maybe?

I am not quite so stupid, even with my toxic chemicals, to answer the last two clauses, but as to the first, my study of human nature through my years in NY, emerging markets, London, etc. indicates to me that assuming the worst is usually a good point of departure.

Of course, with respect to 'urfi marriages as practised by the Egyptians (or Masaroua as we like to call them out West), obviously the lack of written evidence is... well... prejudicial, and given men can get away with denail rather more easily, obviously inferior to Shia mut'a (which I find to be quite interesting really, given my almost entirely contractual approach to life).

I do confess a certain fondness of Maghrebine 'Araaf and would highlight (given my own experience in the area, at several reprises thus merely indicating what a glutton for punishment (or obsessive) I am) a factor: the dead hand of the state and bureaucracy in the areas of registration.

Of course, the court's decision with respect to the paternity issue and DNA testing is simply daft and goes against any kind of use of their meager 'aql; but then that's why we have 'aqoul, to bang them upside the head.

Sorry about that last, I was personally entertained by my own meager cleverness.

Oh L-I am not quite so stupid, even with my toxic chemicals, to answer the last two clauses

You're not going to play? Pity

Secret, indeed, that is probably the only encouraging thing about this fiasco, her father is quite the crusader.

Matthew- please oh PUHLEASE feel free to comment, I can't wait.

The whole 'urfi issue (and the associated consequences) is just a sad statement on how tough it is to simply get married in Egypt. Takes too long to save up for an apartment/furniture (if you can even find an apartment in Cairo). Men and women theoretically can't have sex until they marry, but can't get married until they have living arrangements. I imagine it must be quite maddening for them wait until late 20s/early 30s to have sex.

Re the universal rule, well, I reserve the right to be an unconscionable little shit regardless of my gender. As for women being naive simpletons, probably not useful to generalize (and I certainly shouldn't, having hardly any female friends myself).

Packing up my toys and leaving- chicken shit swine the lot of you...

Right with respect to the issue of getting married in Egypt. At its core, there is an economic issue - lack of housing, lack of affordable housing, lack of opportunity for young people in terms of getting proper work.

All devolves back to the old Nasserist socialist regime and its complete failure to generate long-term economic growth and opportunity. Mubarek and as-Sadat have puttered around the edges, but the whole insane vampire state edifice remains largely untouched.

Bah, you're the one in the land of mutaouine hick 'aroubi whackos.

(and I do recall for all and sundry that in Maghrebi dialect, 'aroubi literally means "backwards uncouth hicks")

" I imagine it must be quite maddening for them wait until late 20s/early 30s to have sex."

I think we should check with Dr. Kapoor in Bombay on that.

Update!

dubai-w:

Unfortunately the article doesnt tell us precisely what that ruling actually decided.

dear mk,

the court decided that the biological father is the legal father of the child, meaning that he has to provide for support, that the child can get registered, get a passport, etc. this a huge step.

i know it sounds weird, but a child without a father legally doesn't exist.

read the details here:

http://www.sandmonkey.org/2006/05/24/great-news-hind-al-hinnawy-won-the-law-suit/

--raf*

Thanks raf*.

I suspect this language is not precisely from the original opinion, but it makes the point quite well:

"a precedent that can be used from now on in paternity suits against dickheads who refuse to acknowledge their children."

Hmmm, I guess being on strike makes the Egyptian judiciary that much better.

if you will come to egypt and meet me , I is sure you will forget your want from net and the chat , just you look to me ,and not you run from your promise to me about your visit to egypt , call me at
and you will see what I will do to we marry

Speaking of dickheads...